The Helius PoNS Device: Hope, Healing, and a New Path in Stroke Recovery

If you’re a stroke survivor—or someone supporting one—you’ve likely come across many therapy options and recovery strategies. From traditional physiotherapy to alternative treatments, the road to recovery can be long, overwhelming, and, at times, discouraging.

But what if there was a way to wake the brain back up, even years after your stroke?

Welcome to the world of the Helius PoNS Device—a groundbreaking neurostimulation tool designed to re-engage your brain’s natural ability to heal itself.

In this post, we’re breaking down what the PoNS device is, how it works, and whether it might be the missing link in your recovery journey.

🧠 What Is the Helius PoNS Device?

The PoNS (Portable Neuromodulation Stimulator) is a non-invasive, FDA-authorized and Health Canada-approved medical device that delivers mild electrical stimulation to the tongue. This stimulation targets the brainstem and cerebellum, the regions of the brain involved in movement, balance, and coordination.

At first glance, it may look like a futuristic headset with a small mouthpiece—but behind this simple appearance is a powerful method of neuroplasticity activation, helping stroke survivors regain control over their body in new ways.

Quick Facts:

• ✅ Non-invasive and drug-free
• ✅ Originally developed in partnership with the U.S. military
• ✅ Backed by clinical trials and years of research
• ✅ Authorized for use in Canada for stroke, TBI, and MS, with more conditions expected to be added soon

⚙️ How Does It Work?

The PoNS device is worn around the neck, with a connected mouthpiece that rests on the tongue. It sends electrical impulses through the tongue to the brainstem, stimulating the cerebellum, the area responsible for motor learning and balance.

When paired with targeted physical or cognitive therapy, this stimulation enhances the brain’s ability to reorganize and form new connections—a process known as neuroplasticity.

The result? Many stroke survivors are seeing improvements in:

• Balance and gait
• Fine motor skills
• Dexterity (e.g. handwriting, typing)
• Cognitive function
• Confidence and independence

💡 Is It Just for Balance?

Originally developed for improving balance and gait in those with traumatic brain injury or multiple sclerosis, the PoNS device has since been shown to benefit stroke survivors in other ways too.

In a recent episode of the Recovery After Stroke Podcast, neuro-rehabilitation expert Brody Jackson from Neuro Peak Performance in Canada explained how his team uses the device in customized programs to help clients with a wide range of neurological deficits—including fine motor skills, spasticity, and even functional movement disorders.

“We’re not just treating ‘a stroke.’ We’re treating the specific limitations that person has. The PoNS helps activate the brain’s capacity to improve, no matter how long it’s been since the injury.” — Brody Jackson

🧪 The Science Behind Neuroplasticity

Neuroplasticity is your brain’s ability to rewire itself.

Think of it this way: your brain was once a sponge, absorbing and adapting rapidly during childhood. After a stroke, that sponge becomes rigid—but the PoNS device softens it again, giving your brain the opportunity to learn and adapt like it once did.

When paired with repetition and targeted therapy, this process leads to more efficient learning of new motor patterns and regaining lost function.

Just like learning to drive or play piano, repetition is key—but the PoNS accelerates that learning by putting your brain in an optimal state for growth.

💰 What Does It Cost?

In Canada, where access is more open, patients purchase the PoNS device through clinics like Neuro Peak Performance. The device includes a collar and a mouthpiece that’s active for 14 weeks (98 days). After that, mouthpieces can be replaced if the user wants to continue therapy.

While pricing varies, the investment reflects a comprehensive therapy program, including:

• Personalized assessments
• Intensive therapy sessions (often 2–3 hours per day)
• Weekly check-ins
• Optional continued use after the initial program

For many, this is a life-changing investment—especially for those who have plateaued or feel stuck in their current rehab.

🌎 Who Can Access the PoNS?

Currently, the device is most accessible in Canada, where regulatory barriers are lower. Patients from the U.S., Australia, and Europe have traveled to Canada to begin therapy without the red tape often found in their home countries.

Conditions currently supported include:

• Stroke
• Multiple Sclerosis (MS)
• Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
• Parkinson’s (off-label use, pending approval)
• Vestibular and functional disorders

🎙️ Real People, Real Recovery

In episode 200 of the Recovery After Stroke Podcast, we spoke with Cheryl Schiltz, the very first person to use this technology. After losing her inner ear function due to a medical mishap, Cheryl struggled with constant vertigo and imbalance.

Using the early prototype of what became the PoNS device, Cheryl retrained her brain—literally learning to balance through her tongue.

Today, she’s a public speaker and advocate for neuroplastic therapy, living proof of what’s possible.

🤔 Is the PoNS Device Right for You?

Here’s what to consider before starting PoNS therapy:

• Are you currently hitting a plateau in your stroke recovery?
• Are you committed to doing daily therapy for 14+ weeks?
• Are you open to non-traditional approaches that are evidence-based?
• Can you travel to Canada (if outside the country)?
• Are you ready to invest financially and emotionally in your next recovery chapter?

If you answered yes to any of these, then PoNS may be worth looking into further.

🧭 Next Steps

✅ Visit www.neuropeak.ca to learn more about clinics using the PoNS device.

✅ Watch Episode 200 featuring Cheryl Schiltz for a real-world story of the PoNS journey.

✅ Talk to your doctor or neurologist about whether you may be a candidate.

✅ Explore additional recovery tools at recoveryafterstroke.com/learn

✨ Final Thoughts

Recovery doesn’t end after the hospital stay or outpatient rehab. Whether you’re 3 months or 3 years post-stroke, the brain can continue to grow, heal, and adapt.

The Helius PoNS Device isn’t a miracle cure—but for many, it’s the missing piece in the recovery puzzle. If you’re ready to take back your independence, regain movement, and explore what’s still possible, the PoNS might be the spark that reignites your path forward.

How the Helius PoNS Device Is Revolutionizing Stroke Recovery Through Neuroplasticity

Helius PoNS Device brings new hope to stroke survivors by rewiring the brain with neuroplastic therapy and real-world recovery results.

Neuro Peak

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Podcast
03:23 Brody Jackson’s Background and Clinic Details
05:37 Explanation of the Helius PoNS Device
13:27 Kinesiology and Its Role in Rehabilitation
18:12 Helius PoNS Device: Cost and Accessibility
26:12 Therapy Program and User Experience
34:09 Brody Jackson’s Perspective on Neuroplasticity
48:39 Client Success Stories and Testimonials
50:58 Challenges and Misconceptions About the Device
1:03:55 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript:

Introduction and Overview of the Podcast

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Hello again, everyone, and welcome to Recovery After Stroke. Before we jump into today’s incredible interview, I wanted to share a quick update my book, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened, has now sold over 400 copies and continues to receive amazing feedback. If you are on your own recovery journey or supporting someone, this book offers hope, insight and encouragement for finding meaning and growth after stroke, you can find it at recoveryafterstroke.com/book, or on Amazon by typing my name, Bill Gasiamis into the search bar.

Bill Gasiamis 0:39
Now let’s talk about today’s episode. If you’ve ever wondered what is possible in stroke recovery, even years after your stroke, this is the episode for you today. I’m joined by Brody Jackson, a neuro-rehabilitation expert and a kinesiologist from Neuro Peak Performance in Canada. The clinic Brody works in is one of the world’s leading providers of the Helius PoNS device, a fascinating neurostimulation tool that’s helping stroke survivors around the world walk again, regain balance and reconnect with parts of themselves they thought were lost.

Bill Gasiamis 1:16
Brody shares what the PoNS device actually is, how it works and why it is not just about balance. It’s about rewiring the brain using targeted neuroplasticity-based therapy. We also dive into the emotional side of recovery and the small, powerful winds that fuel long-term success. And if the PoNS device sounds familiar, it might be because you’ve heard my interview with Cheryl Shiltz, the very first person to ever use a technology that led to the creation of the device. That’s episode 200 and it’s a must-listen.

Bill Gasiamis 1:53
If you’re curious about what’s possible when it comes to rewiring the brain after injury, you’re going to love this conversation. It’s packed with inspiration, real world rehab results and hope for what’s still possible no matter where you are in your journey. Let’s dive in. Brody Jackson, welcome to the podcast.

Brody Jackson 2:13
Yeah, thanks for having me, Bill.

Bill Gasiamis 2:16
Now forgive me for asking, but how did we meet? Who introduced us?

Brody Jackson 2:23
So I believe you reached out to me via a patient and his wife, who I’ve been speaking to for quite some time about entering our clinic and kind of just through conversation back and forth, of especially going to engage in our PoNS program. And from there, I guess they reached out to you, I probably presume, wanting maybe more questions or more answers, and then it just kind of organically made its way back to me.

Bill Gasiamis 2:54
Exactly, alright. Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes I struggle to fit the pieces. I get a lot of people requesting guests, I get a lot of people requesting to be on the show, so it makes a little bit challenging. Now we’re going to talk about what the PoNS is in a minute, but before we talk about what the PoNS device is, I’d love you to tell the listeners a little bit about your background, the kind of work that you do, a little bit about your organization?

Brody Jackson’s Background and Clinic Details

Brody Jackson 3:23
Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Brody Jackson, so I am a kinesiologist. I’ll say that on paper, but really, especially in Canada, we wear a lot of different hats, but my I specifically specialize in neuro rehabilitation, rehab. So I work for a clinic. We actually just recently changed our name. We are now called Neuro Peak Performance and Physiotherapy here in Surrey, British Columbia, Canada, which is just outside of Vancouver, about half an hour out, we used to be called the Surrey Neuroplasticity clinic.

Brody Jackson 3:57
Which I believe if you start to look online, you’ll see a lot more of that name floating around. We deal with all things the brain. So our clinic is kind of a multi-sprung kind of company. We have kind of three different heads, we’ve got our clinical trials division, which is called our CNS. We’ve got the clinic which is us, and then we also have our own proprietary medical device called the Neuro Catch, which ultimately scans brain function. So from there, we kind of went into this really cool realm of assess, test and then implement.

Brody Jackson 4:34
And that’s kind of what our bleed of our company’s been, and we focused around all things brain. So everything from, you know, run-of-the-mill low-level kids playing sports concussions all the way up through traumatic brain injuries, MS, Parkinson strokes, and a lot of the off label or kind of the more or less mystery situations and everything in between. So we kind of see a little bit of everything.

Brody Jackson 4:59
Every day, but really, we try to strive towards using a lot of evidence-based and technology based product and assessment and intervention to be able to give us a much more non biased and objective way of treating the various ailments. So we’ve got a huge team on our roster of kinesiologists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists. We run with counselors a lot of our kids, and our physios do the bulk of the work. We like I said, we wear a lot of different hats, and it’s allowed us to do a lot of really cool things with a lot of special individuals.

Explanation of the Helius PoNS Device

Brody Jackson 5:37
So that’s kind of how we’ve really been we our goal is to obviously treat people mainly for the brain, and find new ways to get them better. And then one of the main things that we’ve obviously been using here is the PoNS. So the PoNS is not our product. It is a product from a company called Helius. So they are an American based company, they’ve got there’s been PoNS users all over the world. Now, it is a very cool device, I have it with me here. So I don’t know if people will see me on video or not, but this is what it looks like.

Bill Gasiamis 6:13
They will.

Brody Jackson 6:13
Okay, so I will walk people through that after.

Bill Gasiamis 6:17
Yeah, lift it up for a sec. Let’s hold it there for a little bit. I’ll make you feel uncomfortable so it looks like overgrown set of glasses from the back. And then how would you put it on your head? What would it look like when you’re wearing.

Brody Jackson 6:34
Yeah, so as I put it on, so you can see it’s got a fairly flexible collar, it’s very user friendly. It was originally designed for people with TBI, so it was ultimately supposed to be very simple to use, flexible you wear it around your neck and on with the collar itself. It will be connected to a mouthpiece, and that mouthpiece, this is our demo device. I’m not actually going to put in my mouth, but it does sit inside your mouth, on top of your tongue, and it does sense stimulation through your tongue, which will travel through into our brain stem and essentially stimulate our cerebellum.

Brody Jackson 7:10
Which our cerebellum is our movement cortex of our brain. And from what research tells us is the fastest way to get into the brain to elicit something very special called Neuroplasticity, which is the way the brain changes itself and can heal. So I’m sure many of your users have maybe read, maybe you’ve heard of Norman Deutsch, he’s very famous in the brain health world.

Brody Jackson 7:36
The way the brain changes itself is one of his more famous books. It talks very extensively on the PoNS. So a lot of that neuroplastic, and neuromodulation stimulation has been developed through that, and we get to see it firsthand here.

Bill Gasiamis 7:53
Love it so very cool. The reason I know about, the reason this all came about now, or I’m starting to put all the pieces together, is that I somebody reached out to me, wanted to know if I had interviewed somebody who had used that device, the PoNS device. And what I’ve actually done is, I’ve interviewed Cheryl Shiltz, who was number one person who used the very first device in the 1990s after her whole inner ear was destroyed by some medication due to a medical intervention that she needed.

Bill Gasiamis 8:35
And as a result of having her inner ear damaged and destroyed, she wasn’t able to walk, have any balance. All she had was a spinning room. And what do they call it? When everything is moving around you all the time.

Brody Jackson 8:53
Vertigo.

Bill Gasiamis 8:53
Vertigo all the time. And she happened to even under those really extreme conditions, sign up to a course to go to the University of Madison, Wisconsin and do a course on some topic that she was interested in, and by some stroke of absolute miracle, Paul Bachy-y-Rita and his team were working at the University of Madison, Wisconsin.

Bill Gasiamis 9:24
Developing tools for Neuroplasticity. Paul Bachy-y-Rita, for example, helped somebody who was blind, completely blind, shoot baskets into a garbage can with a device that was sort of mimicking vision on his forehead. And then Cheryl has this device that they designed, they put it in a gyroscope. They put a gyroscope on a helmet on her head. And then they attach this probe thing, she puts it on her tongue.

Bill Gasiamis 10:00
And then with training that stimulates the Neuroplasticity to in their in her words, retrain the tongue to know where Cheryl was in the world, to give her a sense of balance, back to kind of rewire her inner ear to the back of her tongue to tell her how to balance and then, long behold, she’s the first person who proves the theory. And then from there, we have the opportunity to develop the devices, and now they look like the one that you put around your neck. Now for people watching and listening, Cheryl is a must-watch episode.

Bill Gasiamis 10:41
It’s an absolutely must-watch episode. It’s episode 200 and I cannot stress how important it is that you watch that episode if you’re interested in regaining your balance after a cerebellar stroke, or you have some other inner ear problems or some other issues related to your stroke now. Do you know about Cheryl Shiltz, Brody? Let’s take a quick break here from this incredible conversation with Brody to remind you about two powerful tools you can use right now in your stroke recovery journey.

Bill Gasiamis 11:17
First, if you haven’t picked up my book yet, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened. I encourage you to do so. It is filled with honest reflections and practical strategies from someone who’s been there me and the other people who I interviewed to help me write the book. Over 400 copies have already been sold, and it continues to help survivors navigate the physical, mental and emotional challenges of life after stroke. You can grab your copy at recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

Bill Gasiamis 11:51
Second if you’re looking for guidance in your recovery, whether you’re just starting out or hitting a plateau, visit recoveryafterstroke.com/learn. There you’ll find some self-paced video lessons and resources designed specifically for stroke survivors and caregivers. All right, let’s get back to Brody and learn more about how the Helius PoNS device is giving people a second chance at mobility, balance and confidence.

Brody Jackson 12:19
Yeah, I’ve heard kind of vague rumbles of it early on, as I was kind of getting into neuro rehab. And then as, you know, as we started to learn about the PoNS, we learned of, you know, a lot of their background stuff through their work in Russia, and then, obviously, through some of their in inter stuff through Wisconsin. And then you start to dive down into the Neuroplasticity and kind of the history of it. And I’ve read little antidotes, and I haven’t heard your podcast with her actually, so I’d be very interested myself to actually give this a whirl on that as well. So I will look into that.

Bill Gasiamis 12:53
It’s a phenomenal podcast. She’s such a lovely lady, and she takes you through the entire story of how she lost her inner ear, how she regained it, and how it changed her life, it’s just absolutely amazing. I couldn’t believe that I was interviewing her, because I reached out just by fluke, like you do with all the people that you want to have on the podcast. And she said yes, and I couldn’t believe it. And she’s still doing work in that space, still has an interest in that area, and it’s well worth looking into.

Kinesiology and Its Role in Rehabilitation

Bill Gasiamis 13:27
So your client, or your potential client, contacted me and said “Do you know anyone about who has used the PoNS? I said “No, but I know the first person who ever developed the theory and the device to get it to where it is today.” And what I suppose I wanted to do was, since we couldn’t talk about since I didn’t know anyone, I thought maybe you could talk about some people who have used the PoNS, but before we talk about them.

Bill Gasiamis 13:58
I want to know what Kinesiology is, because I’ve had the pleasure of having some kinesiology done with me, and it’s amazing, and I don’t get it, but I love it, so I’d love for you to describe in your own words what Kinesiology is and how people use it to benefit.

Brody Jackson 14:22
So being akin it’s very different across different regions, especially different countries. The core competency of it’s essentially the active approach of human movement. I would say, up in Canada, we’re very similar to physios it, but we just don’t do like, I would say, more or less a physio, but a lot bigger, more of an active component. So we’re still treating, we’re still assessing, we’re still doing hands on, we’re still doing a lot of the things that a physiotherapist would do, but we are going to be.

Brody Jackson 15:00
It with a lot more movement-based and activity and strengthening, lot more of the active, like the exercise component, and in terms of a kind of what you’ll see in our clinic, where a lot more balance and gait specialized. We do a lot more specific to the ailments. But a lot of us have, you know, vestibular specialization training, ocular training, a lot of those things that assume that a physio only could do. A lot of us will do as well and can. It’s just there’s a little bit more of an active component. In other countries, like I know, in the US, it’s a little different. It’s a little bit more exercise only driven.

Brody Jackson 15:40
And then I’m not too sure what it looks like in in your part of the world, but I would assume it’s probably very similar where it’s a lot more exercise therapy driven. But at least for us here, that’s kind of what it looks like.

Bill Gasiamis 15:53
It seems like it’s probably broad.

Brody Jackson 15:57
It is fairly broad, yes.

Bill Gasiamis 15:59
So what I have when I’ve had kinesiology, basically, my chiropractor uses it to test where he needs to work. And he does the resistance tests of my leg, of my arms and what have you. And then from there, he somehow knows how to follow that back to a particular part of the spine and then work there. Like, I completely, totally, don’t get it, but I see the result because he does a test my hand doesn’t stay up, and then he does something on my back, and then he goes back, tests the hand, and then the hand stays up and responds.

Bill Gasiamis 16:41
Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s, so interesting. And it’s like he’s working on, like, on circuits and Switching Circuits on and off. Well, on, he’s trying to switch them on, actually, not off.

Brody Jackson 16:53
Yeah, that’s all about his isolating, you know, different limitations and deficits. And from there, you can reverse kind of engineer backwards of what might be causing that or might be creating that implication, and he’s worked through it that way. And that’s kind of the the ethos of what a kinesiologist is going to do is we’re assessing what those limitations or those deficits are. And that’s why I always say every no patient is the same. Everyone gets a unique assessment.

Brody Jackson 17:20
Whether it is balance or gait or vestibular, strength or muscular, whatever that is you’re not treating the let’s say it’s a stroke. You’re not just saying, I’m treating a stroke and blanketing it as a stroke. You’re treating what that individual, specific limitations are that are very specific to that person. So it’s dystonia, or it’s increased tone, or it’s spasticity, or it’s a gate deviation, or it is a balance issue.

Brody Jackson 17:51
It’s, as we know, with, you know, there’s different kinds of strokes that elicit very different limitations, and as we know, no stroke is the same. So that’s where we approach that, and that’s the beautiful thing with physical therapy and active therapy specifically, is we’re there to treat the limitation and make those gains that way.

Helius PoNS Device: Cost and Accessibility

Bill Gasiamis 18:12
Alright, let’s talk about the PoNS a little bit. So when did you first come across it?

Brody Jackson 18:19
Yeah, so I came across it as I was actually interviewing to join this team about four and a bit years ago. And what’s pretty cool now is myself and my co clinician, Matthew Gangon, we’re actually probably the two most seasoned spawn users in the world. So a quick little side note is our clinic actually did a lot of Helios initial research and a lot of their clinical trials. So through that, we got very blessed at being one of their kind of key locations. If you actually look up our clinic, there’s a big thing on Montel Williams using it with his MS, and that was all done at our clinic.

Brody Jackson 19:01
He came and traveled through. And there’s a lot of stuff on the Neuroplasticity clinic and PoNS itself. So we got very lucky to use it a lot. And so since then, like, we’ve been Helios biggest, one of their biggest locations for PoNS usage. Like we see, there’s been times where we’ve seen almost triple digits of individuals in a year come through using it, whether it’s been through clinical trials or through private patients. So definitely a lot.

Brody Jackson 19:33
And then myself and Matthew, like I said, we’ve been here the longest, and we’ve used it with pretty much everybody, so we got a lot of experience. So even though I say, I’ve only been around it for four and a bit years, I’ve seen a very, very, very large number of PoNS patients, and I’ve been very blessed to see kind of what it’s been able to do and what it’s done for people.

Bill Gasiamis 19:56
Wow. Okay, let’s talk the nitty gritty, and then go. Get that out the way, and then we’ll talk about the therapy. What does it cost to access the PoNS, to use the PoNS? How does it all work?

Brody Jackson 20:08
Yeah, so it’s, I’ll be pretty frank, it’s not the most inexpensive thing ever, it will be in Canadian dollars. So sometimes for our American neighbors down south, with the Canadian dollar not doing too good. Sometimes it’s a bit of a deal for them, but I know with the Australian dollar and us, we’re kind of very similar right now, it ends up being about so we get it straight from Helios. So I don’t want to necessarily state too many prices publicly, just because other clinics and facilities do use it.

Bill Gasiamis 20:43
They may use points accessing the the service rather.

Brody Jackson 20:47
Yeah, absolutely. So the way it works in Canada, at least, is so usually, originally, when PoNS came out, I’ll make it kind of simpler, and I’ll spread back out when PoNS first came on board. It was originally kind of just an on label device for TB eyes and MS, so TBI doesn’t try brain injuries ms, as in multiple sclerosis. So between those two deficits, that was what all the research was done on, and that’s kind of what things were put through for whatever reason, Helius could only get the full green light completely in Canada.

Brody Jackson 21:24
So we were able to see patients very quickly and right away they yes, they’re American based company, but they could only get clearance with MS, and you had to get a doctor’s asset. It was a whole you had to jump through a lot of hoops in America to be able to utilize it. And I know it’s the same kind of deal in Australia as well, I believe, especially under the MS banner, versus here in Canada, anybody can have access to it if you essentially wanted to do it, because it’s a private a private tool usage. So from there, then expanded onto, we could start taking off label patients.

Brody Jackson 22:03
So we could if you weren’t just limited to having TBS or MS, if you had any form of a brain injury or a neuro based deficit, so Parkinson’s, strokes, functional movement disorders, and, you know, chronic, chronic migraines, vestibular concerns or vertigo, you were able to use it up here. So we got so it allowed a lot of people from out of country and across Canada, specifically coming to our facility to use it. So it was pretty easy, it’s because there were no barriers, at least for us, is if you reached out and you were like, I want to do this, or I’ve done my own research.

Brody Jackson 22:43
It could get done, versus it was a lot more of a process in Australia, in the United States, and, for sure, in Europe, which was almost impossible over there. So that’s where we’ve been able to intake a lot of people to kind of skip those barriers.

Bill Gasiamis 23:01
I don’t get why it’s so hard to access. The thing looks like, it looks like the most non invasive thing you could ever possibly do. You pop it on your neck, and you put it in your mouth, and you’re done.

Brody Jackson 23:12
Yeah, there’s a lot of contraindications, that’s why. And that’s mainly because, since you’re sending stimulation, since into your tongue, intro, like orally there’s risks of potential, you know, if you have a tumor, if you’ve got implants, if you’ve got other or histories of oral cancer, those can be significant contraindications to using the device. So there needs to be, obviously, clearance from FDA Health Canada, or, you know, your various health governing bodies, of everybody clearing it. And I think that’s where the limitations have been.

Brody Jackson 23:49
And because, you know, there haven’t been enough populations of various deficits and situations to use it, they can’t comfortably say, fully, good to go. And I think that’s been in the issue in the United States, with mainly the FDA, with with Health Canada, though, however, we’ve been able to get stroke added to the label, which was absolutely fantastic, about a year and a half ago.

Brody Jackson 24:16
And then we’re pretty close. I mean, I would be shocked if we don’t, if we see Parkinson’s added soon as well, just because we’ve been able to run enough clinical trials up here, we’ve been able to use it enough up here, so that list keeps growing of promising research, which has been fantastic.

Bill Gasiamis 24:34
Okay, so what I like about it is there’s a whole bunch of clinical trials going on in the background that is trying to determine the efficacy of this thing, and then also trying to understand it’s, what’s the word, it’s, side effects. It’s, does it have? Is that the right word.

Brody Jackson 24:54
I wouldn’t necessarily say side effects. I mean I’ve only, really only had. Yeah, one individual maybe abused the device, so to speak, where maybe their neurological system was a little bit more heightened for too long, which obviously, when we’re in a heightened state for too long, can lead to a series of neuroinflammatory reactions. Which was not permanent. It was just that individual needed to do a lot more down regulation work, and we needed to kind of coach them on how often they could use the device. But in terms of those contraindications.

Bill Gasiamis 25:31
It’s more is not necessarily better. No dosage is really important,

Brody Jackson 25:37
Yeah, because what’s happening is, because you’re stimulating your brain, you’re basically raising your nervous system. So the way I kind of describe the use of the PoNS is because we’re stimulating in duet, cerebellum, so into that movement cortex of the brain, you’re basically opening up the up again, the ability to Neuroplasticity. And what I describe to most people, want to explain what on earth is Neuroplasticity is our brain is like a sponge. So when we’re born, when we’re a baby, up until we’re definitely into our late teens or early 20s.

Therapy Program and User Experience

Brody Jackson 26:12
If we notice, and for a lot of people maybe listening, they can admit to this, or they watch their kids, their grandkids grow up. Is year over a year, kids get progressively smarter and more advanced, and you just, there’s a there’s a sponge for knowledge. Every year you see these crazy milestones. That’s that brain’s ability to intake information and morph and change and grow. It starts to slow down, or, you know, it’s usually around 25 years old.

Brody Jackson 26:40
And then that kind of, that ability to intake information at a rapid rate stays kind of stagnant up until our usually mid 50s or early 60s. And then the brain’s ability to undergo Neuroplasticity starts to slow down. Doesn’t mean your brain is degrading, it just means that it’s going to take you longer to learn something. So I always say, you know, you could take a five year old and a 70 year old who both never played piano before, and there’s a very good chance that five year old might learn faster than the 70 year old. It’s just how the brain intakes information.

Brody Jackson 27:17
What the PoNS does is, no matter who or the deficit itself is, it puts that brain back into that neuroplastic state that we might have seen when we were in, you know, a young adulthood or in our teenager phase, where that brain is able to intake content.

Brody Jackson 27:36
So we pair that with very extensive targeted physical therapy or very targeted, maybe cognitive therapy or dexterity, anything that’s going to challenge the brain to adapt or advance or tackle potential deaths or limitation. That’s what we pair that with the PoNS, and because the brain’s in a very spongy state, it’s going to learn these patterns at a more efficient rate.

Bill Gasiamis 28:01
Okay, but more is not necessarily better.

Brody Jackson 28:05
No, because again, if you’re over, you’re constantly up here. There’s a there’s risks that that brain is just not going to learn, because it’s like going to the gym every day. You’re not there’s no value at pushing hard seven days a week in the gym, your body, your brain can’t recover, so in that case, your body won’t recover, right?

Bill Gasiamis 28:24
Yeah, okay, understood. Alright, that’s really good to know, actually. So people are not buying the device. What they’re doing is they’re buying access to it or rehabilitation in your organization. So is there a program that they need to do? Is there a minimum number of doses? How does it actually work? Like, how does somebody engage in that kind of therapy?

Brody Jackson 28:57
Yeah, so super easy. So technically, they do own the device. When they buy it, they have to buy it through the clinic that all you get the collar and the mouthpiece. However, the mouthpiece itself is only active for 98 days, so 14 weeks, and then when that and I’ll get back to kind of what the program looks like. But when the mouthpiece expires, then they have the choice if they want to purchase another mouthpiece, only they can, and then we can reactivate that mouthpiece, attach the collar, they can continue use.

Brody Jackson 29:30
So I have people that have been using it non-stop for years, and they just buy new mouthpieces every 14 weeks.

Bill Gasiamis 29:36
Does it stop? Why does it stop working?

Brody Jackson 29:38
I believe that’s what Helius when they did their research, when they did the clinical trials, a lot of their trials were done over 14 week periods, and I believe I’d not entirely certain, but I assume that’s probably where, when they maybe found that the big leaps of gains would start to slow down, or around that 14 week mark, I’ve still had people using it years later that still make gains, but the gains you see usually on the device from weeks one through 14 are pretty significant, if the individual is appropriate for the use of the device. So it’s just the way they’ve set that up.

Brody Jackson 30:19
Now the other theories that they’ve talked about is that the mouthpiece itself may degrade over time with constant usage in your mouth. So these are gold electrodes and built in with copper and a bunch of other stuff. So I think they also feel that wearing this thing for two to three hours a day every day for 14 weeks would potentially wear down the mouthpiece, right? That would be, those are our two overreaching theories as to why there’s a timer built in.

Bill Gasiamis 30:49
Right, and then I would imagine that if it weighs down the mouthpiece, then it’s not as effective. But also you’re getting potentially parts of the mouthpiece entering your mouth.

Brody Jackson 31:01
Yeah, you’re not potentially not getting any efficient product, nor are you. You’re potentially also risking just stuff breaking down that you don’t want. So what they do usually, so the way the program works is you’d purchase the device, it’s active for 98 days. Usually you would come at least how we do it again, different clinics and facilities may do this differently, how we do it and how we kind of mirrored it around. What Helius and PoNS, Helius wanted to do with their PoNS device is they come to our clinic.

Brody Jackson 31:35
Obviously, we would do an assessment head-to-toe to determine what their deficit limitations are. They would then be in our clinic for usually two weeks, generally where they would do 290 minute sessions a day. So they’re doing three hours of therapy a day from there, usually, depending on where they live or kind of what they want. Most people for those weeks, kind of 3 through 14, they would do a lot of the therapy on their own at home, with the guidance of a program we’d provide.

Brody Jackson 32:09
And then they would check in with us once a week, whether it was in clinic or virtually. And then, obviously, the way we do it at our clinic is it’s very flexible, so people can stay here longer if they’re out of town, or they can come in multiple times a week during weeks 2 through 14. It’s really up to them, what they’re comfortable with and what we want to determine. Some people are more independent than others and may need a little bit more support, so they like coming in a bit more. Others, you know, they’re very comfortable with doing their program on their own.

Brody Jackson 32:42
Now in that time are they does the device gather any data? Does it have any other information that you get, that you can get out of it? How does it?

Brody Jackson 32:56
Yeah, so I would say the data that it absorbs so I can do data downloads on my computer. It’s honestly more or less an accountability tool. So it can tell me how much you’re using it, how much time it’s been sitting on your tongue, the percentage of how good the tongue contacts been as well. So I can kind of use that to check in and be like, okay, you know, tongue contact time looks or in the reverse, it doesn’t look good. You haven’t been using it. It’s hanging out of your mouth too much, we need to change this in order so you can get the out of the experience, what you need.

Brody Jackson 33:23
So it’s more or less an accountability tool that the data will it’ll collect. Because the other thing too is with the PoNS, usually we try to aim for about 120 minutes of stimulation a day. So each PoNS session is 20-minute cycles at a time. So you’re not just wearing it for three hours straight, you’re usually doing 20 minutes of gait training, possibly the 20 minutes of balance, maybe 20 minutes of a movement control or other things, and then it does technically cap out at 200 minutes in a day. So some people will do extra stuff, or in session.

Brody Jackson’s Perspective on Neuroplasticity

Brody Jackson 34:09
If we’re ripping through, we might add in extra sessions in clinic or at home. I might give you some homework to do in the evenings, maybe some meditations, some cognitive work, or which I’ve done for a lot of my stroke patients, I’ve been really getting into doing a lot more dexterity work with, like writing tools and typing tasks and a lot of like man, like fine motor skills stuff, and so I’ll maybe give that to them at home. But that’s kind of how the device is kind of built for their time frame.

Bill Gasiamis 34:37
Okay, so I was under the impression that the pons is really mainly about regaining somebody’s balance, but you’re talking about fine motor skills and dexterity kind of results. So tell me how, it’s how it’s moved on from being just that device that helps to support the or regain the person’s balance?

Brody Jackson 34:59
Yeah. So I think a lot of the early research mainly was to do with, you know, both static and dynamic balance that eventually bled into ambulation because, as you know, if we have no balance, obviously gaits going to be impacted as well. So that’s where a lot of the research was originally done. But you know, when we think about the theory and concept of Neuroplasticity and how the brain learns, is really anything that can challenge that neurological system. Why wouldn’t there be a green light to pair that with PoNS?

Brody Jackson 35:31
So that’s, I think that might be what maybe separates our clinic a little bit differently from maybe other clinics. I’m not too sure, but we started to, you know, again, as I talked earlier, especially because we can take on a lot more off label clients, we started to do specific to them what their deficits are. We were combining it with PoNS, and from there, we were starting to see some success.

Brody Jackson 35:57
So obviously, we don’t have, like hardcore, like concrete data to, like, publish a paper and say, like, yeah, it improves hand function, necessarily. But we were just, we were putting them through their neurological rehab like we would a normal client, and we were combining it with PoNS, and we were starting to see results. And I think that was a big breakthrough for us. And what made us a lot different to to to get people to where they needed to be.

Bill Gasiamis 36:24
Man, I love that. But I thought we were just going to talk about the balance stuff, and this is way better, way more possibility for people to access it for very different reasons and in the same kind of way. Now you must get people who get results, right? What are those conversations like Brady, you’re, they’re at home, or they’re accessing the clinic, whatever they’re doing, but at some stage, they’re noticing results. How does that conversation go? Because that would be really freaky when I remember myself like I’m in rehab.

Bill Gasiamis 37:02
I didn’t use the PoNS or anything like that, but I’m in rehab and I’m noticing, you know, my leg is coming online, and I’m noticing my arm is coming online, and I’m picking things up and I’m taking steps without anybody holding me, and it’s really exciting and rewarding. So what are those conversations like with your patients?

Brody Jackson 37:25
Man, the milestones you get to do with your you get to cross and reach with your patients is kind of why we do what we do. I can’t, there’s nothing better than seeing their reaction to being able to do something in clinic, or their spouse seeing it happen, or their partner, their friend, whoever’s there. It’s such a special moment. And it’s not even, I can’t even describe it. It’s not even a conversation, it’s like a moment of celebration, right? So it’s, you know, a big thing that we talk about with our patients is we, you know, we try to temper their expectations simultaneously going into it.

Brody Jackson 38:04
Because, as you know, everybody knows whether it’s a neurological injury or a physical I carry your shoulder based injury. Everyone wants to be better yesterday, and then they’ve tried, maybe they’ve tried everything, they’ve stalled. They’re not getting better, they come across a really new, exciting program, or in this case, device or technology, and their brain jumps about 14 steps forward into what they expect is going to happen immediately. So the big thing that we always talk when in clinic is, you know, to celebrate those stepping stones.

Brody Jackson 38:44
It’s not about goals 1, 2 and 3, it’s goals 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 leading up to goal 2.0 and I think those are what’s super special. And I think especially because we do that intensive first two weeks, that’s we spend a lot of time with the individual. You develop a really cool relationship with them generally, and from there, you’re celebrating along the way, because everyday compounds. It’s really tough, it’s not easy. It’s probably, for most people, it’s one of the harder things they’ve probably ever done.

Brody Jackson 39:21
You know, a lot of individuals, most really healthy, active individuals, don’t even exercise three hours a day anyways, let alone someone who’s now suffered a neurological deficit. Maybe they’ve been struggling with it for years, and we’re not afraid to push their buttons. So it’s a really cool, active conversation as the program progresses, because there’s a lot of, as you maybe know, there can be a lot of psychosocial deficits, or limitations that come alongside major life altering deficits, right?

Brody Jackson 39:54
And so it’s a constant, organic conversation of we celebrate these little things. It’s going to be really hard. This is a really good thing. You should be proud like, and it’s just building on those pieces, right? So it’s a really fun it’s a really fun time.

Bill Gasiamis 40:12
I love that you have that idea of, you know, got a milestone one and then milestone 1.1 and then milestone 1.2 so it’s like, the same milestone, but it’s not about like, just smashing it out and getting to the the goal, whatever it is like, say, it’s I need to be able to run again. It’s like “Well, okay, let’s change your gait, let’s watch your gait. Let’s improve your gait. Let’s improve the way that you walk.” And then, once you’ve done all the other improvements, it’s like, let’s continue improving in that space, rather than, let’s just get out there and start running.

Bill Gasiamis 40:57
I love that idea. What happened to me right now was you’re describing how the PoNS works, and then how you’ve decided, how the organization has decided to start using it in for people, for different things. And it reminds me of the conversation I had with a couple of the guys from a Aviv Clinics and their hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And they have a room, a chamber, a massive chamber. It’s like a room, you walk into the chamber, you sit down, and then they take that person through a hypoxic brain episode by increasing the oxygen level and then decreasing it to normal levels.

Bill Gasiamis 41:41
The brain thinks it’s going hypoxic, and you can really positively impact the neuro regenerative part of the brain, feeling like when the brain goes hypoxic, what it does to kind of try and stay alive, and in that time, what they do is they ask patients to do different things depending on the deficits that they have. They ask them to stand up and sit down, or they might ask them to write, or use one of their affected limbs, etc. And the whole idea is to intervene right at that time in the same way when the therapy is being delivered.

Bill Gasiamis 41:43
And I love that I’m seeing this pattern now, kind of in a number of different fields of therapy, and it seems like it’s a real a real easy, well, easy I’m going to use the word is because I don’t know another word, but a real easy way to manipulate in a positive way, the brain, so that neural pathways reroute, find another way, or whatever the word is, and then wire and fire and kind of stick is, do am I describing it correctly? Is that what we’re doing?

Brody Jackson 43:09
Yeah, no, I think that’s the best, I think that’s the best description, it’s putting the brain in a new, almost stressed situation, with new pathways during repetitive movements, trying to lay down to learn a new thing, and from there, that brain is going to acquire that skill acquisition, it’s again, it’s no different. I always talk to people too, both because sometimes it’s so funny, because, like with clients, they get frustrated, because it’s like, why are we hammering this same gait pattern over and over and over and over again?

Brody Jackson 43:46
And they lose their minds about it, and I say “You know, it’s no different. If you walked up to a to a guitar, you’ve never played guitar in your life. Every day you pick up the guitar, you’re going to go try to play a different song every day. No, it may make no sense. You’re not going to learn, you can’t. If you’re going to learn something, you have to be able to repetitively do it and learn it and constantly grow and build off of that.” And I find that in therapy and even in exercise, this is even going to talks like general gym goers.

Brody Jackson 44:21
Everybody wants to be entertained, and I find that they need to do many, many, many, all kinds of things, instead of narrowing down and getting really good at certain stuff. And that’s no different than when it comes to physical therapy. In this case, neuro rehab is, it’s not circus, it’s purpose. We’re here, I’m not going to make you stand on one leg and jump up and down on a BOSU ball because it looks, because Instagram told you it looks cool. It’s, there’s no function. There’s no reason you need to be able to do that.

Brody Jackson 44:54
So we focus on the pathway itself, and it’s repetitive, and it’s, we have to stress the brain to lay down that new pathway, and from there, that’s how that brain acquires that new skill set, and then it becomes natural.

Bill Gasiamis 45:08
I’m going to test your pop culture knowledge and your age. It’s wax on, wax off. It’s paint the fence, Mr. Miyagi, he taught us in the 80s.

Brody Jackson 45:18
Karate Kid, I’m older than I look.

Bill Gasiamis 45:23
It’s Mr. Miyagi. It’s like, why am I painting the fence? Because Danielson, you have to paint the fence mate, and then once you paint the fence a million times, then you’ll have that float in the hand motion to be able to block or to deflect, or whatever he was teaching him to do with the karate kicks right and then. And if you haven’t watched karate kid and you’re listening to this podcast, go and get Karate Kid and watch it, please, and you’ll learn something about Neuroplasticity that Mr. Miyagi was telling us in the 80s that we didn’t realize was actually a lesson on Neuroplasticity.

Bill Gasiamis 46:08
Is exactly what it was. It was a amazing thinking back on that show, an amazing example of how you develop a something that appears second nature, how you develop it. You develop it from doing it a long, long time driving is a classic example. I remember being 16 and getting my learner’s permit and then trying to convince my dad for the next two years to let me drive every opportunity that I got. And I remember having this conversation vividly with somebody I used to work in. I used to work in a hardware store, and there was an older guy there.

Bill Gasiamis 46:47
He would have been 28 at the time, and I was telling him how I was struggling driving. And he goes “Yeah, you’re struggling now, because it’s all new, and it’s a big hunk of metal and all these things that you’ve never had to deal with before. But by the time you’re 28 you’ll be driving, and you won’t even think about it.” And I remember him saying, like, you’ll get somewhere, and you won’t even know how you got there, because it’s become second nature, and it’s because of the amount of hours that you’ve spent behind the wheel retraining.

Bill Gasiamis 47:16
You know that part of your hand and your leg to work together, and that part of your brain and your eyes and your ears to do all the things they need to do to drive a car and keep it on the right side of the road and make it look effortless. So I often think about that when I’m trying to get my head around how long something takes to really master it. And you know, you hear the whole other reference to the 10,000 hour rule that to get become masterful, it’s something you have to spend 10,000 hours practicing it or doing it.

Bill Gasiamis 47:56
And I don’t know if we need to spend 10,000 hours to get results in stroke recovery, but the more hours we spend, in a kind of lovely way, in a way that’s not too many hours in a short amount of time, and it’s not over stimulating the brain, and we are allowing for rest and recuperation, and we are allowing ourselves to have down days. The more time we do that, the more results we get. It’s just impossible not to get a positive result by doing something like a physical therapy, whether you’re doing it with somebody like yourself, Brody, or on your own at home.

Client Success Stories and Testimonials

Bill Gasiamis 48:39
That’s kind of been my whole little way, to motivate people. So anything you do to help you walk better doesn’t matter how hard it is. Is getting you a positive outcome, if you’re not doing it, you’re not getting a positive outcome. In fact, you’re rewiring the brain in a negative way, in a way that’s not supporting recovery of the thing that you want to recover. So I’m glad that we’re having this conversation and that we can possibly open people’s eyes to something else and another device and another way to think about recovery. It doesn’t have to be in the gym.

Bill Gasiamis 49:21
It doesn’t have to be necessarily in a clinical environment, it can be just by putting this thing on your tongue and standing there. You can YouTube Cheryl Shiltz and pull back your reader, and you’ll find the original video that the team took when Cheryl first puts the device on her tongue and starts to rewire her her balance, and then how it develops over time, and then how she goes from not being able to walk to being able to ride a bike.

Bill Gasiamis 50:00
And then bragging about the fact that she’s riding the bike while they’re recording her on a car next to her, or something like that, perhaps on another bike next to her. It’s just a completely it’s an amazing thing that was it, that it was even discovered, and here we are now. We’re talking about 30 years later, and the PoNS device exists. I mean, it’s phenomenal, I love this stuff.

Brody Jackson 50:25
Yeah, no, it’s been, like I said, it’s been it’s been fun. I mean, there’s been so many just incredible client success stories and just again, cool milestones, do different deficits, every day is just so neat. And I mean, every it’s cool, because every Friday we meet as a team, and we always kind of, do you know, client shout outs, and we kind of round table, and it’s really neat, because it’s people are sharing such cool stuff with their regular patients, obviously, as well. But if there’s someone in the door that’s going through our PoNS.

Challenges and Misconceptions About Helius PoNS Device

Brody Jackson 50:58
It feels like every week we got something cool to share, and it’s, and they become connected to you, right? Like, I still talk to a huge number of individuals who went through this program that you know, still check in with me all the time. I still talk to them, they still update me. They still come in every once in a while, still years later, and it’s really neat. And, you know, there’s always room to make improvements, and there’s always room your therapy just doesn’t stop. You know, I know it can be for a lot of individuals, it can be really tough, right?

Brody Jackson 51:34
So hold, it’s a big life change your life’s upside down. Things change, things are very difficult, and maybe you’ve tried various forms of therapy and recovery, and things have been very limited, right? But I do want to let people know that, you know, don’t be like, always be hungry. I always tell people this too is, you know, I get one of the things, it’s interesting, is a lot of my patients come in and they get frustrated. The first week is really tough, the nervous system’s on fire, they’re exhausted.

Brody Jackson 52:11
And again, they come in thinking that they should be up here three days into the PoNS program, and they’re upset, they’re emotional, and then they started apologizing me profusely, and I tell them, like “Don’t apologize. I want you to be hungry. I want you to not be satisfied with where you’re at because that’s going to keep pushing you the second and one of you know, it’s cool.” because there’s always one quote that’s always stuck in my head I tell all my patients.

Brody Jackson 52:47
This is it was an old ice hockey coach of mine when I was a child, and he coached me for years, and one of the things he told me is “If you’re not uncomfortable, you’re not growing.” He says “The second you get the second you get comfortable, whether it’s in sport, whether it’s in life, in school, at work or in a relationship, when you get too comfortable, things go sideways, and if you’re always uncomfortable or something, an event or situation is making you uncomfortable, you will grow from that, and you’re going to grow from it. And it won’t become uncomfortable again.”

Brody Jackson 53:27
And so I use that a lot with my patients. I go, you know, if this stuff was comfortable for you and easy, you wouldn’t be here. So I want this to be if you’re uncomfortable right now, and this is tough, means we’re growing, and that’s how the brain grows under stress, the body grows under stress. It’s you stress, it’s good stress.

Brody Jackson 53:46
And that’s a big thing we talk about with our patients is, you know, it’s okay to be frustrated and want more, because that’s going to drive you. If you’re always wanting more, you will get more. Yeah, so that’s all. It’s just being hungry, right?

Bill Gasiamis 54:06
I agree being uncomfortable is uncomfortable, though, and you have to wrap your head around that it’s something that you should look forward to. You should what’s where you should get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yes, it’s hard to work it out, but once you are comfortable with being uncomfortable, then you’re going to go into uncomfortable situations. So they won’t be so traumatic, or they won’t be so hard to do. I’ve had to do that with public speaking, and you have to go into a room, you have to talk.

Bill Gasiamis 54:47
People have to, you have to get them engaged and make them not fall asleep. So you thinking about that, there’s only one way to do that, is to go and test your your particular presentation, and to see where it bombs, so that then you can refine it so that it bombs less the next time you do it, but you have to expect it to bomb a little bit, and that’s even more uncomfortable in an uncomfortable situation, when something bombs and you’re already feeling icky and uncomfortable and things are hard and it goes bad.

Bill Gasiamis 55:21
Well, you’ve got to just know that it’s actually just part of the process. It’s just part of the way that you learn and that you fine tune your skill and you do those 10,000 hours, that’s the way they are. All the 10,000 hours aren’t beautiful and lovely and perfect. There’s a lot of harsh, terrible lesson learning hours that you have to go through now, the people who got you and I together. I would describe it as a little, a few reservations as to whether or not they should take action and invest in a program of this kind, because they’ve never seen something like that before.

Bill Gasiamis 56:08
It’s really strange, what are the some of the things that people kind of have reservations about with this product, and how do you kind of try and make them feel okay about giving it a go and investing in it. I’m not trying to do the sales spiels, but I am trying to sort of tell people that, all right, this may look weird, you may not understand it, but I also am the kind of person who is the like, don’t knock something unless you’ve tried it.

Bill Gasiamis 56:08
But that’s not enough to convince somebody to use a device like this and to spend the money on it, on the whole thing. So I’m just curious about that. How do we move people from being feeling like a little bit unsure, to actually becoming somebody who’s willing to try it?

Brody Jackson 57:00
Yeah, so obviously, one of the big, I mean, I’ll be very upfront, the biggest barrier we find, at least initially is, obviously, there’s, it’s a big commitment, because there’s a big cost commitment attached to that, especially if you’re out of country, you gotta fly here. You gotta accommodations, like it’s not just a vacation, it’s now you’re committed into also a paid therapy program as well. So that’s always going to be the first and foremost.

Brody Jackson 57:31
I mean, that’s always the biggest thing, no matter what, even for people that are local here to Austin, British Columbia, or just leaving local, just within Canada is that it’s obvious, it’s always going to be cost, especially in this day and age. Economically, everybody’s always got that top of mind. But out notwithstanding, that the next kind of thing that we find is, again, it’s just that unknown. I think you know a lot of people who come to us that want to know more about PoNS. Thankfully, they’ve done all. A lot of them have done, already done their due diligence.

Brody Jackson 58:07
They already know. Like, I don’t have to not say waste, but I don’t need to explain to them for 15 or 20 minutes what it is or how it works. Most of the people come into us, they’re like, I know exactly what this is. I just need finer details. Let’s, let’s kind of get this going. But for the people that don’t know what this is, and it’s kind of a little bit more of a organic segue into it, it is, exactly that is. It’s explaining to them, because they don’t sometimes they can’t wrap their head around, you know, stimulating their tongue that’s going to make me do all these things.

Brody Jackson 58:46
Or some people, they find, if they’ve kind of exhausted their therapy, so to speak, like it’s been years and they’ve been struggling with for a long time. They say they’ve seen everybody under the sun and they can’t figure it out. They want to, well, how do I know? Again, circling back to the cost thing, they’re going to say, I’ve tried everything already. Why should I go do this? So it’s sometimes, you know, it’s what I usually do with our patients.

Brody Jackson 59:14
And so a lot of our other therapists, we just lay everything out very clearly, it’s not, we never do this as like a sales pitch. That’s not how I approach that. It’s I go look, this is what it can do, this is how it the program structured. The end of the day, it’s no different than them continuing to do therapy every once a week or twice a week for a year would most likely be the same cost to what a really intensive 14 week program is going to be anyways, when the dust settles. So I always map it out as it’s an accelerated way to kick start in a far more detailed therapy regimen.

Brody Jackson 59:58
Is that’s kind of how I supply and then I layout, no, I give people data, I give people studies, I’ve lot videos. It’s more just educating, because a lot of people just don’t know it’s a lot of it’s very foreign. And I think when people fear the unknown, and if they don’t understand it, the guards come up. And I think that’s just how the this day and age has been to as well, especially with just the rise of misinformation or the rise in stuff circling through social media is there’s a lot of content out there that is right, wrong, garbage, false, manipulated.

Brody Jackson 1:00:37
So if people don’t understand, the guard comes up immediately. So, we just try to educate them, we give them every tool and conversation that we need for it. And I would say the vast majority of the time, they end up proceeding, and we end up getting on with beginning.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:58
Yeah, sounds like it’s just literally about making an informed decision, and absolutely everyone has a different time frame that gets them to pull the trigger or not, and that’s okay, whatever that is. I mean, we’ve done exactly what I wanted to do today, on behalf of two people who don’t know whether they should use the product or not, whether they should go down this path, and that is and what I’ve done is we’ve discussed all the ins and outs, the history, where it’s at how it works, the applications. We’ve discussed that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:41
So I think we’ve given people a whole bunch more information that they can consider and maybe help them make a decision about their rehab, especially the people who are early on and all the stroke recovery stuff is overwhelming. Everything is overwhelming, and then I love that idea of all so people who have perhaps been out of the system for a little bit, and thought I’ve tried everything, nothing’s worked, I’m done for now. And then they stumble across this somewhere.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:11
And they think maybe I should give it a go, if you can manage it, I would encourage people to never, ever look at ways to continuously try to find ways to improve your life, your quality of life, your function, your independence. Go for it, I mean, what do you got to lose? So thank you so much for joining me and being so gracious and teaching us about the PoNS and what you guys do, if people wanted to find out a little more about your organization, where would they go?

Brody Jackson 1:02:50
Yeah, so they obviously the easiest place I can, also include it in. I think we got a little chat box, so I can also send you some stuff.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:59
Yes.

Brody Jackson 1:03:00
But obviously our website, which is at neuropeak.ca, is going to be the best place to go. First, it shows all the services our clinic offers, in general. And then from there, they can also see we’ve got a whole section on our PoNS. And from there they can reach out, obviously, to us via that website.

Brody Jackson 1:03:26
So we have our info email. There’s also my email as well, that’s where all our contacts easy to find via our website. We try to keep things very clean again. Our goal is to not overwhelm people we don’t want to, especially, you know, knowing our demographic and knowing who we work with, we don’t need to make a system complicated. So obviously, also, you know, they’re more than welcome again. PoNS is a very public device.

Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Brody Jackson 1:03:55
Now, they can Google it, or whatever search engine they use to look through PoNS, there’s lots of cool articles and stories, lots of testimonials. You’ll see both via either link to our website or link to other news articles or lots of YouTube videos, especially with Montel, that they can follow along and learn a little bit more about it. But it’s very easy to get access information.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:20
I’ll make sure that all the links are in the show notes. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:25
No worries. I appreciate your time, Bill. Thank you for having me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:29
Well, that wraps up this excellent episode with Brody Jackson, his passion for helping stroke survivors and his work with the Helius PoNS device is giving people real results and real hope, especially those who have been told they plateaued or that recovery is no longer possible. From helping clients walk again to improving fine motor skills and even handwriting, the PoNS device is truly redefining what stroke rehabilitation can look like if today’s episode. It opened your eyes or to something new, or reminded you that recovery never really ends.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:06
I encourage you to check out Episode 200 of this podcast with Cheryl Shiltz, the first person in the world to use this kind of technology. It is so powerful, emotional and enlightening, and it shows just how far Neuroplasticity can take us. Please remember to like, subscribe and leave a review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you’re listening, and if you’re watching on YouTube, leave a comment below and share what inspired you most about this episode.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:37
You can learn more about the clinic that Brody is based at by going to neurospeak.ca, and I’ll include all the links in the show notes we mentioned earlier. Finally, if you’d like to support this podcast, you can visit patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Every bit of support helps me cover the cost of the podcast and continue to bring valuable insights and stories like this to stroke survivors around the world, thanks for being here until next time. Keep going, stay hopeful and remember your recovery is still happening, one step at a time.

Intro 1:06:14
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